The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When he comes, he will proclaim all things to us.” Jesus said to her, “I am he, the one who is speaking to you.” ... Then the woman left her water jar and went back to the city. She said to the people, “Come and see a man who told me everything I have ever done! He cannot be the Messiah, can he?” They left the city and were on their way to him. -John 4:25-26, 28-30 NRSV
I love how Jesus interacts with the woman at the well. Their conversation comes across as a blend of idle chatter and deep conversation. It seems that there was probably more to their talk than what is reported by John. He spoke to her not only about who she was but about who he is. And in a very rare occurrence Jesus tells her that he is the Messiah.
Many messianic figures have arisen in history. Some accompanied by great works. Even today men rise up and claim the mantle of prophet or messiah. Since ancient times men and women have looked forward to the coming of such people. Even politicians get labeled as messiahs. Yet no one in history has ever impacted lives like Jesus of Nazareth.
Come Holy Spirit. Come Lord Jesus Christ. Speak to us. Change us. That we might leave all and tell your story.
... this devotion is part of an ongoing series on the Gospel of John.
Yes, come Lord Jesus.
ReplyDeleteI find it troubling, Bob, that you talk about someone claiming the mantle of a prophet in the same breath as someone claiming to be a "messiah." I have noticed that churchmen have no problem if you tell them you feel called to be a pastor, teacher, or evangelist. But tell them you feel called to be an apostle or prophet and they look at you like you are the devil. Now I'm not saying you feel this way, it may just be the way you couched your statement, but perhaps you should clarify this. I believe church leaders react this way because they have usurped the authority of the apostles and prophets so anyone claiming this calling is immediately seen as a threat to their authority. This is lawlessness. Do you not believe their are apostles and prophets...even today?
ReplyDeleteThanks for the note Del. I have a lot of experience with people who claim to be a prophet and those who seem to have a true prophetic gifting. I certainly did not mean to disparage anyone who is called and gifted in the prophetic. Yet even prophets like Isaiah and Ezekiel can not compare to Messiah Jesus.
DeleteNo, they don't compare to Jesus, but they are His servants and not the servants of His people. Apostles and prophets are charged with seeing that His will is done on earth and NOT the will of His people. This is one reason why God's people have long preferred pastors, teachers, and evangelists over apostles and prophets. It is also why the the American Church is the house of men and not the House of God; as I said in another post.
ReplyDeleteConsider this, Bob: Have you ever heard the the Lord, in Scripture, say, 'My servants the pastors,' or 'My servants the evangelists or teachers?' No, it's always 'My servants the prophets.' Of course apostles are also prophets with the added dimension of being rulers. And, a Church without apostles and prophets is completely cut off from its Head and thus becomes the house of men; a house of cards that already IS FALLEN and no one seems to be aware that it IS FALLEN. I reiterate this as John did in Revelation 14:8 NKJV because because God's people are not hearing me.
I thank you, Bob, for answering me as kindly as you did. Usually i am given what I call "the right foot of fellowship." and shown the door. If this is not your intention I am sure I will see some of my missing comments posted.
I think I should give you some space now, Bob, and not post for a while. You can email me on Google if you want to. Blessings, peace, and grace to you.
Firstly, I think that I have published all of your comments Del except one - I had a glitch yesterday (on anther comment stream) and both your comment and my reply got deleted in error.
DeleteRegarding prophets and apostles, I think that I previously agreed with you regarding the present day operation of such gifts and callings. In a few weeks I am having lunch with a couple who have an apostolic ministry in Kenya. Regarding the prophetic I began prophesying in 1976 and have seen both the good and the bad in this area of ministry. Unlike what you have written though I do not exalt one gift over another. I do not see a hierarchy of gifts in the church but understand that each gift is essential in the body. The eye cannot say to the ear that it is more important. Each part of the body is important.
Regarding future comments, I welcome your input. I have removed moderation for older posts (over 30 days) so your comments on older posts will post immediately.
Bob, I know I said I would give you some space but I feel I must answer your reply. Actually, I would call it your "spin."
ReplyDeleteYou accuse me of exalting one gift over another. But Bob, we have not been talking about gifts! We have been talking about the OFFICES of Apostles, Prophets, Pastors, Teachers, and Evangelists. There is a chain of command at work here. Surely you recall that Paul said: "And God has appointed these in the church: FIRST apostles, SECOND prophets, THIRD teachers." Then Paul goes on to talk about gifts. The Greek word rendered "teachers" here is often translated as "rabbi." And since Paul numbers the first two offices we can be sure that teachers refers to the other three: Pastors, Teachers, and Evangelists. So it was Paul, by the Word of the Lord, who exalted OFFICES one and two over the other three; not me.
By your comment concerning your friends in Kenya, it is clear to me that they are Evangelists, not Apostles. But your comment also tells me that you likely believe they are Apostles because they are probably planting churches there. But planting churches does not make one an Apostle no more than having the gift of prophecy makes you a Prophet. Paul's statement, on the other hand, tells me that the Apostles are first in authority, next to our great King, and the Prophets are second.
I tell you truly, Bob, and make no mistake about it: Apostles and Prophets are the two primary OFFICERS of the Church to whom Christ has given headship! Pastors, Teachers, and Evangelists are supposed to be submitted to these two. But this is not the case, is it Bob? This is a great Apostasy and yet another scandal in the Church; a result of great lawlessness among Pastors, Teachers, and Evangelists! For Pastors, Teachers, and Evangelists, usurped the offices of the Apostles and Prophets long, long ago. The 11th Chapter of Revelation illustrates this quite clearly, for the Two Witnesses represent Apostles and Prophets being restored, raised up by God to rule and reign with Christ.
Unfortunately, Bob, I am beginning to believe I am wasting my time contending with you because your doctrines are apparently chiseled in stone and cannot be altered. Thus, you are an old wineskin who cannot, or will not, receive the new wine from heaven. Therefore, and I am truly sorry, but you will not hear from me again until you can say: Blessed is he who comes in the name (authority) of the Lord.
With regard to spiritual gifts (I believe there are gifts to the body of apostle and prophet) I do not see a chain of command Del.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I am okay to agree to disagree on that interpretation.
I am also okay to be called "an old wineskin" with doctrines "apparently chiseled in stone". I have been called worse.
I wish you well in your journeys with God.